Jeffrey Zeldman’s guest is web pioneer Jeff Veen (@veen), cofounder of Typekit and Adaptive Path, co-creator of Measuremap, author of The Art & Science of Web Design and Hot Wired Style, ex-Google, ex-Adobe, now with True Ventures capital investment firm. Jeff and Jeffrey discuss creating the tools our community uses to make the stuff the world consumes, agency versus in-house design, consulting design monetization versus product design monetization, parent hacks, mentoring, the early web design days of Debabelizer and using server-side push for animation (because animated GIFs didn’t exist yet), how companies get valuated, what it takes to make a thing (versus what it takes to scale it), speaking versus writing, research, empathy, and saying no to products that kill kittens.